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Agenda and minutes

Venue: Y Siambr - Y Senedd. View directions

Note: 104(v3) 

Senedd.TV: View the webcast

Transcript: Transcript for 29/11/2017 - Plenary

Items
Note No. Item

(45 mins)

1.

Questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Energy, Planning and Rural Affairs

The Presiding Officer will call Party Spokespeople to ask questions without notice to the Cabinet Secretary after Question 2.

View Questions

Supporting documents:

Minutes:

The item started at 13.30

Questions 1–5 and 7-8 were asked. Questions 2, 3, and 4 were answered by the Minister for Environment. Question 6 was not asked. The Presiding Officer invited party spokespeople to ask questions to the Cabinet Secretary after question 2.

(45 mins)

2.

Questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Local Government and Public Services

The Presiding Officer will call Party Spokespeople to ask questions without notice to the Cabinet Secretary after Question 2.

View Questions

Minutes:

The item started at 14.17

The first 7 questions were asked. Questions 6 and 7 were grouped together for answer. The Presiding Officer invited party spokespeople to ask questions to the Cabinet Secretary and the Minister for Housing and Regeneration after question 2.

(20 mins)

3.

Topical Questions

To ask the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Transport

Russell George (Montgomeryshire): Given the announced 23 per cent overspend on the project to dual the A465 between Abergavenny and Hirwaun, will the Cabinet Secretary confirm where the additional resource to fund this will come from?

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Ynys Môn): Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on the impact of the recent floods on Anglesey's road network?

To ask the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Services

Darren Millar (Clwyd West): What consideration has the Cabinet Secretary given to commissioning an independent inquiry into allegations of abuse on Caldey Island?

To ask the First Minister

Leanne Wood (Rhondda): Will the First Minister make a statement on the implications for Wales of the UK Government's Brexit Impact Assessments following their release on Tuesday?

Minutes:

The item started at 15.10

To ask the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Transport

Russell George (Montgomeryshire): Given the announced 23 per cent overspend on the project to dual the A465 between Abergavenny and Hirwaun, will the Cabinet Secretary confirm where the additional resource to fund this will come from?

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Ynys Môn): Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on the impact of the recent floods on Anglesey's road network?

To ask the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Services (answered by the Minister for Children and Social Care)

Darren Millar (Clwyd West): What consideration has the Cabinet Secretary given to commissioning an independent inquiry into allegations of abuse on Caldey Island?

To ask the First Minister (answered by the Cabinet Secretary for Finance)

Leanne Wood (Rhondda): Will the First Minister make a statement on the implications for Wales of the UK Government's Brexit Impact Assessments following their release on Tuesday?

(5 mins)

4.

90 Second Statements

Minutes:

There were no 90-second statements.

(60 mins)

5.

Motion under Standing Order 17.2 to give instructions to the Committee for the Scrutiny of the First Minister

NDM6573 Paul Davies (Preseli Pembrokeshire)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.2, instructs the Committee for the Scrutiny of the First Minister in these terms:

1. That a special meeting of the Committee should take place at the earliest opportunity to establish an inquiry into the allegations made by former members and advisers to the Welsh Government in relation to bullying, intimidation and the undermining of Ministers.

2. That the Committee should establish the following as part of its inquiry:

a) when allegations were made to the First Minister and/or his office;

b) how allegations were investigated;

c) what actions were taken as a result of any investigation;

d) the role of the First Minister and his office in dealing with these issues; and

e) the validity of the answers given by the First Minister to the National Assembly for Wales in relation to such allegations.

3. That the Committee should take evidence from witnesses as part of its work.

4. That the Committee should prepare a report of its findings to the Assembly by February half-term 2018.

Supporters:
Neil Hamilton (Mid and West Wales)

The following amendment has been tabled:

Amendment 1. Julie James (Swansea West)

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.2, instructs the Committee for the Scrutiny of the First Minister to note:

1. The Welsh Government’s commitment to appoint a panel of independent advisers to provide a source of external independent advice on Ministerial conduct as required under the Ministerial Code as set out in a written statement issued on 23 November 2017;

2. That James Hamilton, a current independent adviser to the Scottish Government, has been appointed as an independent adviser to the Welsh Government; and

3. That the First Minister has referred himself to James Hamilton in relation to allegations, made in the last two weeks, that he breached the Ministerial Code; and

4. The final report of the independent adviser when published.

Written Statement
Ministerial Code – November 2017

Minutes:

The item started at 15.41

Voting on the motion and amendments under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

A vote was taken on the motion without amendment:

NDM6573 Paul Davies (Preseli Pembrokeshire)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.2, instructs the Committee for the Scrutiny of the First Minister in these terms:

1. That a special meeting of the Committee should take place at the earliest opportunity to establish an inquiry into the allegations made by former members and advisers to the Welsh Government in relation to bullying, intimidation and the undermining of Ministers.

2. That the Committee should establish the following as part of its inquiry:

a) when allegations were made to the First Minister and/or his office;

b) how allegations were investigated;

c) what actions were taken as a result of any investigation;

d) the role of the First Minister and his office in dealing with these issues; and

e) the validity of the answers given by the First Minister to the National Assembly for Wales in relation to such allegations.

3. That the Committee should take evidence from witnesses as part of its work.

4. That the Committee should prepare a report of its findings to the Assembly by February half-term 2018.

For

Abstain

Against

Total

27

0

29

56

The motion without amendment was not agreed.

The following amendment was tabled:

Amendment 1. Julie James (Swansea West)

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.2, instructs the Committee for the Scrutiny of the First Minister to note:

1. The Welsh Government’s commitment to appoint a panel of independent advisers to provide a source of external independent advice on Ministerial conduct as required under the Ministerial Code as set out in a written statement issued on 23 November 2017;

2. That James Hamilton, a current independent adviser to the Scottish Government, has been appointed as an independent adviser to the Welsh Government; and

3. That the First Minister has referred himself to James Hamilton in relation to allegations, made in the last two weeks, that he breached the Ministerial Code; and

4. The final report of the independent adviser when published.

A vote was taken on amendment 1:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

29

0

27

56

Amendment 1 was agreed.

A vote was taken on the motion as amended:

NDM6573 Paul Davies (Preseli Pembrokeshire)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.2, instructs the Committee for the Scrutiny of the First Minister to note:

1. The Welsh Government’s commitment to appoint a panel of independent advisers to provide a source of external independent advice on Ministerial conduct as required under the Ministerial Code as set out in a written statement issued on 23 November 2017;

2. That James Hamilton, a current independent adviser to the Scottish Government, has been appointed as an independent adviser to the Welsh Government; and

3. That the First Minister has referred himself to James Hamilton in relation to allegations, made in the last two weeks, that he breached the Ministerial Code; and

4. The final report of the independent adviser when published.

For

Abstain

Against

Total

29

0

27

56

The motion as amended was agreed.

 

(60 mins)

6.

Member Debate under Standing Order 11.21(iv)

NDM6521

Mike Hedges (Swansea East)
David Melding (South Wales Central)
Simon Thomas (Mid and West Wales)
Dawn Bowden (Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Recognises that cavity-wall insulation when correctly installed in suitable properties can be a cost-effective way of reducing fuel bills, thereby contributing to reductions in fuel poverty and carbon emissions.

2. Believes that there remains, however, a significant minority of installations in unsuitable properties that are not complying with standards of good workmanship, and for which seeking redress is often difficult and compensation often inadequate or not possible to obtain.

3. Urges the Welsh Government to work with the UK Government, the Cavity Insulation Guarantee Agency (CIGA) and others to provide proper redress and compensation for incorrect installation, and to strengthen consumer protection going forward.

Supported by:
Mick Antoniw (Pontypridd)
Russell George (Montgomeryshire)
Sian Gwenllian (Arfon)

Minutes:

The item started at 16.43

NDM6521

Mike Hedges (Swansea East)
David Melding (South Wales Central)
Simon Thomas (Mid and West Wales)
Dawn Bowden (Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Recognises that cavity-wall insulation when correctly installed in suitable properties can be a cost-effective way of reducing fuel bills, thereby contributing to reductions in fuel poverty and carbon emissions.

2. Believes that there remains, however, a significant minority of installations in unsuitable properties that are not complying with standards of good workmanship, and for which seeking redress is often difficult and compensation often inadequate or not possible to obtain.

3. Urges the Welsh Government to work with the UK Government, the Cavity Insulation Guarantee Agency (CIGA) and others to provide proper redress and compensation for incorrect installation, and to strengthen consumer protection going forward.

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

(60 mins)

7.

Welsh Conservatives debate

NDM6594 Paul Davies (Preseli Pembrokeshire)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Welcomes the crucial role Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board frontline staff play in delivering services and supporting patients across north Wales.

2. Notes the Welsh Government’s decision to place Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board in special measures in June 2015.

3. Believes that the Welsh Government has failed to address increasing waiting times in north Wales and the health board’s deteriorating financial position.

4. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) clarify what steps it is taking to ensure that the financial uncertainty at Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board does not undermine the delivery of services;

b) publish a clear action plan for returning the health board to its normal status; and

c) explain the measures the health board will undertake to improve patient outcomes.

The following amendments have been tabled:

Amendment 1. Julie James (Swansea West)

Delete points 3 and 4 and replace with:

Notes the Welsh Government’s continued challenge to Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board to address its unacceptable waiting times and financial situation.

Notes the significant support provided by the Welsh Government to Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board to work to stabilise and recover its position.

Notes that following a review of progress with HIW and the WAO in early December the Welsh Government will consider further measures Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board must undertake to improve.

Amendment 2. Rhun ap Iorwerth (Ynys Môn)

Add as new point at end of motion:

Believes that resolving the issues faced by Betsi Cadwaldr University Health Board will require a substantial expansion in the workforce, which will require an expansion of medical and nursing training.

Minutes:

The item started at 17.33

Voting on the motion and amendments under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

A vote was taken on the motion without amendment:

NDM6594 Paul Davies (Preseli Pembrokeshire)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Welcomes the crucial role Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board frontline staff play in delivering services and supporting patients across north Wales.

2. Notes the Welsh Government’s decision to place Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board in special measures in June 2015.

3. Believes that the Welsh Government has failed to address increasing waiting times in north Wales and the health board’s deteriorating financial position.

4. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) clarify what steps it is taking to ensure that the financial uncertainty at Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board does not undermine the delivery of services;

b) publish a clear action plan for returning the health board to its normal status; and

c) explain the measures the health board will undertake to improve patient outcomes.

For

Abstain

Against

Total

17

0

39

56

The motion without amendment was not agreed.

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1. Julie James (Swansea West)

Delete points 3 and 4 and replace with:

Notes the Welsh Government’s continued challenge to Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board to address its unacceptable waiting times and financial situation.

Notes the significant support provided by the Welsh Government to Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board to work to stabilise and recover its position.

Notes that following a review of progress with HIW and the WAO in early December the Welsh Government will consider further measures Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board must undertake to improve.

A vote was taken on amendment 1:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

29

0

27

56

Amendment 1 was agreed.

Amendment 2. Rhun ap Iorwerth (Ynys Môn)

Add as new point at end of motion:

Believes that resolving the issues faced by Betsi Cadwaldr University Health Board will require a substantial expansion in the workforce, which will require an expansion of medical and nursing training.

A vote was taken on amendment 2:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

55

0

0

55

Amendment 2 was agreed.

A vote was taken on the motion as amended:

NDM6594 Paul Davies (Preseli Pembrokeshire)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Welcomes the crucial role Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board frontline staff play in delivering services and supporting patients across north Wales.

2. Notes the Welsh Government’s decision to place Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board in special measures in June 2015.

3. Notes the Welsh Government’s continued challenge to Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board to address its unacceptable waiting times and financial situation.

4. Notes the significant support provided by the Welsh Government to Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board to work to stabilise and recover its position.

5. Notes that following a review of progress with HIW and the WAO in early December the Welsh Government will consider further measures Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board must undertake to improve.

6. Believes that resolving the issues faced by Betsi Cadwaldr University Health Board will require a substantial expansion in the workforce, which will require an expansion of medical and nursing training.

For

Abstain

Against

Total

32

0

23

55

The motion as amended was agreed.

 

(60 mins)

8.

Plaid Cymru debate

NDM6595 Rhun ap Iorwerth (Ynys Môn)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Notes that the recent UK Government budget announcement:

a) did not contain specific new announcements for Wales; and

b) included downward revisions for economic growth, productivity and business investment.

2. Believes that the anticipated changes to the Welsh block grant reflect a continuation of failed austerity measures instead of new resources.

3. Regrets that the UK Government budget announcement did not commit any support to the Swansea Bay Tidal Lagoon.

4. Calls on the Welsh Government to take steps to lift the public sector pay cap.

5. Urges the Welsh Government to secure greater decision-making powers over infrastructure investment and the Welsh economy.

The following amendments have been tabled:

Amendment 1. Paul Davies (Preseli Pembrokeshire)

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Notes the £1.2 billion increase in the Welsh budget over four years as a result of Barnett consequentials resulting from the UK budget.

2. Notes the £67 million increase in the Welsh budget as a result of the fiscal framework negotiated between the Welsh and UK Governments.

3. Notes the commitment in the UK budget to commence formal negotiations for a north Wales growth deal.

[If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be de-selected]

Amendment 2. Julie James (Swansea West)

Delete all after point 3 and add new points:

Calls on the UK Government to lift its self-imposed public sector pay cap and fully fund a pay rise for all public sector workers.

Calls on the UK Government to devolve greater decision-making powers over infrastructure investment to Wales to support the Welsh economy.

Minutes:

The item started at 18.30

Voting on the motion and amendments under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

A vote was taken on the motion without amendment:

NDM6595 Rhun ap Iorwerth (Ynys Môn)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Notes that the recent UK Government budget announcement:

a) did not contain specific new announcements for Wales; and

b) included downward revisions for economic growth, productivity and business investment.

2. Believes that the anticipated changes to the Welsh block grant reflect a continuation of failed austerity measures instead of new resources.

3. Regrets that the UK Government budget announcement did not commit any support to the Swansea Bay Tidal Lagoon.

4. Calls on the Welsh Government to take steps to lift the public sector pay cap.

5. Urges the Welsh Government to secure greater decision-making powers over infrastructure investment and the Welsh economy.

For

Abstain

Against

Total

10

0

46

56

The motion without amendment was not agreed.

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1. Paul Davies (Preseli Pembrokeshire)

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Notes the £1.2 billion increase in the Welsh budget over four years as a result of Barnett consequentials resulting from the UK budget.

2. Notes the £67 million increase in the Welsh budget as a result of the fiscal framework negotiated between the Welsh and UK Governments.

3. Notes the commitment in the UK budget to commence formal negotiations for a north Wales growth deal.

A vote was taken on amendment 1:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

17

0

39

56

Amendment 1 was not agreed.

Amendment 2. Julie James (Swansea West)

Delete all after point 3 and add new points:

Calls on the UK Government to lift its self-imposed public sector pay cap and fully fund a pay rise for all public sector workers.

Calls on the UK Government to devolve greater decision-making powers over infrastructure investment to Wales to support the Welsh economy.

A vote was taken on amendment 2:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

34

0

22

56

Amendment 2 was agreed.

A vote was taken on the motion as amended:

NDM6595 Rhun ap Iorwerth (Ynys Môn)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Notes that the recent UK Government budget announcement:

a) did not contain specific new announcements for Wales; and

b) included downward revisions for economic growth, productivity and business investment.

2. Believes that the anticipated changes to the Welsh block grant reflect a continuation of failed austerity measures instead of new resources.

3. Regrets that the UK Government budget announcement did not commit any support to the Swansea Bay Tidal Lagoon.

4. Calls on the UK Government to lift its self-imposed public sector pay cap and fully fund a pay rise for all public sector workers.

5. Calls on the UK Government to devolve greater decision-making powers over infrastructure investment to Wales to support the Welsh economy.

For

Abstain

Against

Total

34

10

12

56

The motion as amended was agreed.

 

Point of Order

The item started at 19.37

Hefin David raised a point of order under Standing Order 13.9 (iv) and (v) about comments made by Andrew RT Davies during Item 5 about another Member having ‘taken the shilling’. The Llywydd stated that it was clear to her that the remark was made and that questioning the integrity of fellow Members in such a way is not acceptable. Andrew RT Davies stated that he had nothing to add to the clarification he had given earlier. The Llywydd stated that she would deal with the matter outside the Chamber, and may return to it if necessary.

 

9.

Voting Time

Minutes:

The item started at 19.39

 

Votes Summary

Supporting documents:

(30 mins)

10.

Short Debate

NDM6593 Jayne Bryant (Newport West)

Wales’s invisible problem - the social impact of gambling

Minutes:

The item started at 19.43

NDM6593 Jayne Bryant (Newport West)

Wales’s invisible problem - the social impact of gambling

 

 

 

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