Agenda and minutes

This meeting will be held in a hybrid format, with some Members in the Senedd Chamber and others joining by video-conference.

The Presiding Officer will call party spokespeople to ask questions without notice to the Minister after Question 2.

View Questions

The item started at 13.30

Questions 1-3 and 5-9 were asked. Question 4 was withdrawn. The Presiding Officer invited party spokespeople to ask questions to the Minister after question 2.

The Presiding Officer will call party spokespeople to ask questions without notice to the Minister after Question 2.

View Questions

The item started at 14.18

The first 9 questions were asked. The Presiding Officer invited party spokespeople to ask questions to the Minister after question 2.

To ask the Minister for Health and Social Services

Russell George (Montgomeryshire): Will the Minister provide an update on the University Hospital of Wales issuing a black alert regarding a significant and sustained adverse demand on services?

To ask the Minister for Education and Welsh Language

Heledd Fychan (South Wales Central): Will the Minister make a statement on the announcement by HSBC that they will be ending their Welsh-language customer telephone service?

The item started at 15.05

Answered by the Minister for Health and Social Services

Russell George (Montgomeryshire): Will the Minister provide an update on the University Hospital of Wales issuing a black alert regarding a significant and sustained adverse demand on services?

Answered by the Minister for Education and the Welsh Language

Heledd Fychan (South Wales Central): Will the Minister make a statement on the announcement by HSBC that they will be ending their Welsh-language customer telephone service?

The item started at 15.35

Jane Dodds made a statement on - Malcolm Eager, former Citizen of the Year, retires.

John Griffiths made a statement on - Living Wage Week (6-12 November).

Cefin Campbell made a statement on - 50 years of the Centre for Alternative Technology, Machynlleth (11-12 November).

NDM8396 Paul Davies (Preseli Pembrokeshire)

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs report ‘Post-EU regional development funding’, which was laid on 12 September 2023.

Note: The response of the Welsh Government to the report was laid in the Table Office on 31 October 2023. The response from the UK Government was also published on 31 October 2023.

The item started at 15.40

NDM8396 Paul Davies (Preseli Pembrokeshire)

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs report ‘Post-EU regional development funding’, which was laid on 12 September 2023.

Note: The response of the Welsh Government to the report was laid in the Table Office on 31 October 2023. The response from the UK Government was also published on 31 October 2023.

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

NDM8397 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes that:

a) sewage spills into Welsh waters account for 25 per cent of all discharges across Wales and England;

b) six of the UK’s top 20 most polluted rivers across Wales and England are in Wales; and

c) people in Wales have the second highest water bills out of the 11 water companies in Wales and England.

2. Regrets that the Welsh Government’s Storm Overflow Report, published seven months late, contains no recommendations.

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) impose legally-binding targets on Dŵr Cymru and Natural Resources Wales to improve overflows;

b) increase enforcement and ensure fines are used to improve rivers and restore habitats; and

c) tackle non-permitted sewage pipes and ensure they are up to standard.

Storm overflows in Wales: report

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1 Lesley Griffiths (Wrexham)

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the Senedd:

1.  Notes the significant increases in rivers achieving good ecological status in Wales since 1999.

2.  Notes the strict legal framework within which water companies and the regulators operate. 

3.  Opposes the UK Government's policy to remove the nutrient neutrality requirements which would place our fragile rivers at greater risk.

4.  Notes that the Welsh Government:

a) supports greater surface water separation to reduce pressure on wastewater systems by accelerating deployment of nature-based flood management and sustainable drainage systems.

b) will use its powers to ensure all water companies in Wales reduce pollution incidents year on year, aiming for zero, and stop all serious pollution incidents in the short term.

If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be de-selected.

Amendment 2 Heledd Fychan (South Wales Central)

Add as new sub-points at end of point 3:

ensure that Natural Resources Wales is adequately resourced to enable it to fulfil its responsibilities effectively;

put mechanisms in place to withhold the awarding of executive bonuses in the event of Dŵr Cymru failing to uphold its responsibilities on water quality;

accelerate the implementation of robust environmental governance frameworks in Wales to ensure that future instances of infringements are addressed as swiftly as possible.

The item started at 16.42

Voting on the motion and amendments under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

A vote was taken on the motion without amendment:

NDM8397 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes that:

a) sewage spills into Welsh waters account for 25 per cent of all discharges across Wales and England;

b) six of the UK’s top 20 most polluted rivers across Wales and England are in Wales; and

c) people in Wales have the second highest water bills out of the 11 water companies in Wales and England.

2. Regrets that the Welsh Government’s Storm Overflow Report, published seven months late, contains no recommendations.

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) impose legally-binding targets on Dŵr Cymru and Natural Resources Wales to improve overflows;

b) increase enforcement and ensure fines are used to improve rivers and restore habitats; and

c) tackle non-permitted sewage pipes and ensure they are up to standard.

Storm overflows in Wales: report

For	Abstain	Against	Total
16	0	40	56

The motion without amendment was not agreed.

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1 Lesley Griffiths (Wrexham)

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the Senedd:

1.  Notes the significant increases in rivers achieving good ecological status in Wales since 1999.

2.  Notes the strict legal framework within which water companies and the regulators operate. 

3.  Opposes the UK Government's policy to remove the nutrient neutrality requirements which would place our fragile rivers at greater risk.

4.  Notes that the Welsh Government:

a) supports greater surface water separation to reduce pressure on wastewater systems by accelerating deployment of nature-based flood management and sustainable drainage systems.

b) will use its powers to ensure all water companies in Wales reduce pollution incidents year on year, aiming for zero, and stop all serious pollution incidents in the short term.

A vote was taken on amendment 1:

For	Abstain	Against	Total
28	0	29	57

As required by Standing Order 6.20 the Presiding Officer exercised her casting vote by voting against the amendment. Therefore, the amendment was not agreed.

Amendment 2 Heledd Fychan (South Wales Central)

Add as new sub-points at end of point 3:

ensure that Natural Resources Wales is adequately resourced to enable it to fulfil its responsibilities effectively;

put mechanisms in place to withhold the awarding of executive bonuses in the event of Dŵr Cymru failing to uphold its responsibilities on water quality;

accelerate the implementation of robust environmental governance frameworks in Wales to ensure that future instances of infringements are addressed as swiftly as possible.

A vote was taken on amendment 2:

For	Abstain	Against	Total
28	0	29	57

As required by Standing Order 6.20 the Presiding Officer exercised her casting vote by voting against the amendment. Therefore, the amendment was not agreed.

As the Senedd did not agree the motion without amendment, and did not agree the amendments tabled to the motion, the motion was therefore not agreed.

NDM8391 Rhun ap Iorwerth (Ynys Môn)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Condemns the horrifying attacks carried out by Hamas against Israeli civilians and calls for the immediate release of hostages.

2. Notes that Israel has a duty to ensure the protection, security and welfare of its citizens and the occupied Palestinian population. 

3. Condemns the Israeli Government’s indiscriminate attacks on Gaza, resulting in the death of thousands of innocent Palestinian civilians and agrees with the United Nations Secretary-General that collective punishment of the Palestinian people cannot be justified.

4. Calls on the international community to:

a) unite in seeking an immediate ceasefire to end the human suffering and allow humanitarian organisations to reach those in need;

b)  bring pressure to bear on the Israeli Government to end the siege of Gaza which contravenes international law and the basic human rights of Palestinian civilians; and

c) do everything within its power to create safe and meaningful aid corridors into the Gaza Strip and enable safe passage out of the region.

5. Stands in solidarity with the Israeli and Palestinian communities in Wales affected by the conflict.

6. Urges the Senedd to support a two-state solution in order to pursue lasting peace in the region.

Supporters

Adam Price (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr)

Carolyn Thomas (North Wales)

Cefin Campbell (Mid and West Wales)

Delyth Jewell (South Wales East)

Heledd Fychan (South Wales Central)

Jane Dodds (Mid and West Wales)

John Griffiths (Newport East)

Llyr Gruffydd (North Wales)

Luke Fletcher (South Wales West)

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Dwyfor Meirionnydd)

Peredur Owen Griffiths (South Wales East)

Rhys ab Owen (South Wales Central)

Sian Gwenllian (Arfon)

Sioned Williams (South Wales West)

The following amendment was tabled:

Amendment 1 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Condemns the indiscriminate attacks, violence and acts of terror perpetrated by Hamas against Israel on 7th October.

2. Recognises the right of all sovereign states, including the State of Israel, to defend themselves and their citizens.

3. Believes that war should be conducted in accordance with international law, including avoiding civilian casualties.

4. Regrets the loss of civilian lives and casualties in Israel, Gaza and the West Bank.

5. Extends the deepest sympathy of people across Wales to those who have lost loved ones.

6. Recognises the further risks posed by the significant humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

7. Calls for:

a) the release of hostages;

b) a suspension of hostilities to allow for the establishment of humanitarian corridors;

c) the reopening of the Rafah crossing to enable civilians, foreign nationals, aid workers and humanitarian supplies to cross without unnecessary hindrance;

d) the international community to work with Israeli and Palestinian representatives to bring an end to the conflict and negotiate a permanent peace settlement which delivers security and prosperity for all, based on the principle of the two-state solution.

Co-submitters

Alun Davies (Blaenau Gwent)

Hefin David (Caerphilly)

Supporters

Gareth Davies (Vale of Clwyd)

The item started at 17.28

Voting on the motion and amendments under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

A vote was taken on the motion without amendment:

NDM8391 Rhun ap Iorwerth (Ynys Môn)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Condemns the horrifying attacks carried out by Hamas against Israeli civilians and calls for the immediate release of hostages.

2. Notes that Israel has a duty to ensure the protection, security and welfare of its citizens and the occupied Palestinian population. 

3. Condemns the Israeli Government’s indiscriminate attacks on Gaza, resulting in the death of thousands of innocent Palestinian civilians and agrees with the United Nations Secretary-General that collective punishment of the Palestinian people cannot be justified.

4. Calls on the international community to:

a) unite in seeking an immediate ceasefire to end the human suffering and allow humanitarian organisations to reach those in need;

b)  bring pressure to bear on the Israeli Government to end the siege of Gaza which contravenes international law and the basic human rights of Palestinian civilians; and

c) do everything within its power to create safe and meaningful aid corridors into the Gaza Strip and enable safe passage out of the region.

5. Stands in solidarity with the Israeli and Palestinian communities in Wales affected by the conflict.

6. Urges the Senedd to support a two-state solution in order to pursue lasting peace in the region.

Supporters

Adam Price (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr)

Carolyn Thomas (North Wales)

Cefin Campbell (Mid and West Wales)

Delyth Jewell (South Wales East)

Heledd Fychan (South Wales Central)

Jane Dodds (Mid and West Wales)

John Griffiths (Newport East)

Llyr Gruffydd (North Wales)

Luke Fletcher (South Wales West)

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Dwyfor Meirionnydd)

Peredur Owen Griffiths (South Wales East)

Rhys ab Owen (South Wales Central)

Sian Gwenllian (Arfon)

Sioned Williams (South Wales West)

For	Abstain	Against	Total
24	13	19	56

The motion without amendment was agreed.

The item started at 18.50

NDM8392 Sioned Williams (South Wales West)

Can carers afford to care?

The item started at 18.54

NDM8392 Sioned Williams (South Wales West)

Can carers afford to care?