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Agenda and minutes

Venue: Y Siambr - Y_Senedd. View directions

Note: 196(v4) 

Senedd.TV: View the webcast

Transcript: Transcript for 13/03/2019 - Plenary

Items
Note No. Item

Nominations for a committee chair

 

Item started at 13.30

The Presiding Officer invited nominations for the chair of the following committee, in accordance with Standing Order 17.2F:

(i)         Petitions Committee Conservatives

 

David Melding nominated Janet Finch-Saunders
Russell George nominated Mark Isherwood

As there were two nominations, the Presiding Officer referred the nominations to a secret ballot in accordance with Standing Order 17.2I.

 

 

 

 

Emergency Question

Item started at 13.32

To ask the First Minister:

 

Adam Price (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr):  Will the First Minister make a statement on the Welsh Government’s policy on Brexit following the rejection of the EU-UK Withdrawal Agreement in the House of Commons last night?

(45 mins)

1.

Questions to the Minister for Education

The Presiding Officer will call party spokespeople to ask questions without notice after Question 2.

View Questions

Supporting documents:

Minutes:

The item started at 13.49

Questions 1 – 8 and 10 were asked. Question 9 was not asked. The Presiding Officer invited party spokespeople to ask questions to the Minister after question 2.

 

(45 mins)

2.

Questions to the Minister for Health and Social Services

The Presiding Officer will call party spokespeople to ask questions without notice after Question 2.

View Questions

Minutes:

The item started at 14.46

The first 8 questions were asked. Question 3 was answered by the Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services. The Presiding Officer invited party spokespeople to ask questions to the Minister after question 2.

 

3.

Topical Questions

No Topical Questions were accepted

Minutes:

No Topical Questions were accepted

 

(5 mins)

4.

90 Second Statements

Minutes:

No 90 Second Statements were submitted

 

(30 mins)

5.

Statement by the Chair of the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee: The effect of Brexit on the arts, creative industries, heritage and the Welsh language

Minutes:

The item started at 15.37

 

PO Statement: Election of Petitions Committee Chair

The item started at 16.05

The Presiding Officer announced the result of the election of the Petitions Committee Chair:

 

Petitions Committee

 

Janet Finch- Saunders

Mark Isherwood

Abstentions

25

14

1

 

The Presiding Officer declared Janet Finch-Saunders AM elected as Chair of the Petitions Committee.

 

(120 mins)

6.

Debate: Stage 3 of the Public Services Ombudsman (Wales) Bill

The amendments will be disposed of in the order that the sections and schedules to which they relate were set out in the motion under Standing Order 26.36 as agreed by the Assembly on 6 March 2019.

The amendments have been grouped for the purposes of debate and the groupings will be debated as follows:

Group 1: Gender-neutral language 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 16, 21

Group 2: Appointment of Ombudsman 44, 45

Group 3: Investigation of a health related service: Costs recovery 30, 6, 8, 9

Group 4: Auditor General: Laying the certified accounts 49

Group 5: Drafting corrections 2, 7, 10, 12, 13

Group 6: Own initiative investigations 3, 4, 14, 15, 19

Group 7: Making complaints 5, 17, 18

Group 8: Nolan Principles 46

Group 9: Complaints-handling procedures 47, 11, 48

Group 10: Regulation making powers 20

Group 11: Review of Act 39, 40, 41, 42

Group 12: Functions of the Assembly 43

Group 13: Overview 1

Supporting documents
Public Services Ombudsman (Wales) Bill
Explanatory Memorandum
Marshalled List of Amendments
Groupings of Amendments

Minutes:

The item started at 16.06

Amendment 22 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 23 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 24 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 25 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 26 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 44 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 45 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 27 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 28 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 29 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 30 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 31 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 32 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 33 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 34 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 35 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 36 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

A vote was taken on amendment 49:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

0

0

47

47

Amendment 49 was not agreed.

Amendment 37 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 2 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 3 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 4 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 5 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 38 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 6 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 7 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 8 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 9 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 10 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 46 was withdrawn

A vote was taken on amendment 47:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

11

0

36

47

Amendment 47 was not agreed.

Amendment 11 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

A vote was taken on amendment 48:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

11

0

36

47

Amendment 48 was not agreed.

Amendment 12 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 13 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 14 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 15 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 16 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 17 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 18 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 19 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 20 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 39 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 40 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 41 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 42 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 43 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 21 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 1 was agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

All sections and schedules of the Bill were deemed agreed, concluding Stage 3 proceedings.

 

 

(60 mins)

7.

Welsh Conservatives debate - Natural Resources Wales

NDM6989 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales;

1. Notes the Welsh Government’s decision to merge the Countryside Council for Wales, Environment Agency Wales, and the Forestry Commission Wales with the formation of Natural Resources Wales (NRW) in 2013.

2. Recognises the hard work of frontline staff in the organisation but acknowledges their dissatisfaction and lack of confidence in the decisions taken by senior management, as regularly expressed in staff surveys since NRW’s inception.

3. Regrets that NRW has systematically failed the people of Wales through a number of high-profile scandals, including:

a) serious failings in the handling of timber contracts which auditors, Grant Thornton, stated were so bad they "heightened exposure to the risk of fraud";

b) the ‘qualification’ of the organisation’s accounts by the Wales Audit Office for three years running, indicating that there were questions over whether the organisation had acted within the rules;

c) the contradictory approach led by NRW when deciding to intervene on matters of public interest such as shooting on public land and nuclear mud dumping.

4. Calls on the Welsh Government to instigate an independent review/inquiry into the organisation’s failings and to investigate alternative proposals for the management of the natural resources of Wales.

Grant Thornton - Natural Resources Wales - Governance of Timber Sales - 3 February 2019

Natural Resources Wales - Annual Report and Accounts 2015-16

Natural Resources Wales - Annual Report and Accounts 2016-17

Natural Resources Wales - Annual Report and Accounts 2017-18

 

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1 - Rebecca Evans (Gower)

Delete points 3 and 4 replace with new points:

Notes the findings and recommendations of the reports by:

a) National Assembly Public Accounts Committee inquiry into NRW’s annual report and accounts 2017-2018 – November 2018;

b) Grant Thornton - Natural Resources Wales - Governance of Timber Sales - February 2019.

 

Welcomes the appointment of a new chief executive and interim chair of NRW and their commitment to implement the recommendations of the two reports and improve the management and governance of NRW.

Public Accounts Committee - Natural Resources Wales

Scrutiny of Annual Report and Accounts 2017-18 – November 2018

 

[If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2 and 3 will be de-selected] 

 

Amendment 2 - Rhun ap Iorwerth (Ynys Môn)

In point 3, replace “Regrets that NRW has systematically failed the people of Wales through a number of high-profile scandals” with “Regrets the series of high profile failures in NRW”.

 

Amendment 3 - Rhun ap Iorwerth (Ynys Môn)

Delete point 4 and replace with:

Calls on the Welsh Government to establish an independent review to ascertain whether it is still appropriate for NRW to continue to manage the commercial forest estate in Wales and consider any potential alternative models.

 

Amendment 4 - Rhun ap Iorwerth (Ynys Môn)

Add as new point at end of motion:

Calls on the Welsh Government to ensure that NRW is properly resourced to adequately fulfil all of its duties.

 

Minutes:

The item started at 17.13

Voting on the motion and amendments under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

A vote was taken on the motion without amendment:

NDM6989 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales;

1. Notes the Welsh Government’s decision to merge the Countryside Council for Wales, Environment Agency Wales, and the Forestry Commission Wales with the formation of Natural Resources Wales (NRW) in 2013.

2. Recognises the hard work of frontline staff in the organisation but acknowledges their dissatisfaction and lack of confidence in the decisions taken by senior management, as regularly expressed in staff surveys since NRW’s inception.

3. Regrets that NRW has systematically failed the people of Wales through a number of high-profile scandals, including:

a) serious failings in the handling of timber contracts which auditors, Grant Thornton, stated were so bad they "heightened exposure to the risk of fraud";

b) the ‘qualification’ of the organisation’s accounts by the Wales Audit Office for three years running, indicating that there were questions over whether the organisation had acted within the rules;

c) the contradictory approach led by NRW when deciding to intervene on matters of public interest such as shooting on public land and nuclear mud dumping.

4. Calls on the Welsh Government to instigate an independent review/inquiry into the organisation’s failings and to investigate alternative proposals for the management of the natural resources of Wales.

For

Abstain

Against

Total

13

0

34

47

The motion without amendment was not agreed.

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1 - Rebecca Evans (Gower)

Delete points 3 and 4 replace with new points:

Notes the findings and recommendations of the reports by:

a) National Assembly Public Accounts Committee inquiry into NRW’s annual report and accounts 2017-2018 – November 2018;

b) Grant Thornton - Natural Resources Wales - Governance of Timber Sales - February 2019.

Welcomes the appointment of a new chief executive and interim chair of NRW and their commitment to implement the recommendations of the two reports and improve the management and governance of NRW.

A vote was taken on amendment 1:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

27

0

21

48

Amendment 1 was agreed.

As Amendment 1 was agreed, amendments 2 and 3 were de-selected.

Amendment 4 - Rhun ap Iorwerth (Ynys Môn)

Add as new point at end of motion:

Calls on the Welsh Government to ensure that NRW is properly resourced to adequately fulfil all of its duties.

A vote was taken on amendment 4:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

21

0

27

48

Amendment 4 was not agreed.

A vote was taken on the motion as amended:

NDM6989 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales;

1. Notes the Welsh Government’s decision to merge the Countryside Council for Wales, Environment Agency Wales, and the Forestry Commission Wales with the formation of Natural Resources Wales (NRW) in 2013.

2. Recognises the hard work of frontline staff in the organisation but acknowledges their dissatisfaction and lack of confidence in the decisions taken by senior management, as regularly expressed in staff surveys since NRW’s inception.

3. Notes the findings and recommendations of the reports by:

a) National Assembly Public Accounts Committee inquiry into NRW’s annual report and accounts 2017-2018 – November 2018;

b) Grant Thornton - Natural Resources Wales - Governance of Timber Sales - February 2019.

4. Welcomes the appointment of a new chief executive and interim chair of NRW and their commitment to implement the recommendations of the two reports and improve the management and governance of NRW.

For

Abstain

Against

Total

27

0

21

48

The motion as amended was agreed.

8.

Voting Time

Minutes:

The item started at 18.04

 

(30 mins)

9.

Short Debate

NDM6988 Mike Hedges (Swansea East)

The importance of apprenticeships: Why we need people qualified in trades.

 

Minutes:

The item started at 18.07

NDM6988 Mike Hedges (Swansea East)

The importance of apprenticeships: Why we need people qualified in trades.

 

Votes Summary

Supporting documents:

 

 

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