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Agenda and minutes

Venue: Y Siambr - Y Senedd. View directions

Note: 34(v2) 

Senedd.TV: View the webcast

Transcript: Transcript for 23/11/2016 - Plenary

Items
Note No. Item

Record of Proceedings

(45 mins)

1.

Questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government

The Presiding Officer will call Party Spokespeople to ask questions without notice to the Cabinet Secretary after Question 2.

View Questions

 

Supporting documents:

Minutes:

The item started at 13.30

The first 9 questions were asked. The Deputy Presiding Officer invited party spokespeople to ask questions to the Cabinet Secretary after Question 2.

(45 mins)

2.

Questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Environment and Rural Affairs

The Presiding Officer will call Party Spokespeople to ask questions without notice to the Cabinet Secretary after Question 2.

View Questions

Minutes:

The item started at 14.19

The first 9 questions were asked. The Deputy Presiding Officer invited party spokespeople to ask questions to the Cabinet Secretary after Question 2.

(5 mins)

3.

Questions to the Assembly Commission

Minutes:

The item started at 15.05

The question was asked.

(5 mins)

4.

90 Second Statements

Minutes:

The item started at 15.07

Joyce Watson made a statement on the White Ribbon campaign.

Mark Isherwood made a statement on Girlguiding Cymru’s new strategic plan.

Julie Morgan made a statement on the unveiling of a plaque in Llandaff North commemorating Idloes Owen, the founder of the Welsh National Opera.

(5 mins)

5.

Motion to amend Standing Order 26 in relation to Member Bills

NDM6169 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly, in accordance with Standing Order 33.2:

1. Considers the Report of the Business Committee ‘Amending Standing Orders: Standing Order 26 – Member Bills’ laid in the Table Office on 15 November 2016; and

2. Approves the proposal to revise Standing Order 26, as set out in Annex B of the Report of the Business Committee.

Minutes:

The item started at 15.11

NDM6169 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly, in accordance with Standing Order 33.2:

1. Considers the Report of the Business Committee ‘Amending Standing Orders: Standing Order 26 – Member Bills’ laid in the Table Office on 15 November 2016; and

2. Approves the proposal to revise Standing Order 26, as set out in Annex B of the Report of the Business Committee.

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

The Presiding Officer will hold the first ballot on 25th January 2017.  The Table Office will contact Members with details on how to enter the ballot.

(60 mins)

6.

Debate by Individual Members under Standing Order 11.21(iv)

NDM6143
 
Lee Waters (Llanelli)
Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore)
Simon Thomas (Mid and West Wales)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Recognises the enormous potential benefits of the application of 'big data' in agriculture.

2. Notes the growth in research and development in precision agriculture as a way of increasing yields, maximising the use of scarce resources and minimising the use of harmful chemicals.

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to develop a strategy to put Wales at the forefront of the development of precision agriculture.

Minutes:

The item started at 15.12

Voting on the motion was deferred until Voting Time.

A vote was taken on the motion:

NDM6143
Lee Waters (Llanelli)
Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore)
Simon Thomas (Mid and West Wales)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Recognises the enormous potential benefits of the application of 'big data' in agriculture.

2. Notes the growth in research and development in precision agriculture as a way of increasing yields, maximising the use of scarce resources and minimising the use of harmful chemicals.

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to develop a strategy to put Wales at the forefront of the development of precision agriculture.

For

Abstain

Against

Total

43

0

0

43

The motion was agreed.

(60 mins)

7.

Welsh Conservatives debate

NDM6170 Paul Davies (Preseli Pembrokeshire)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Recognises that the retail industry employs 130,000 people in Wales, and makes a key contribution to the Welsh economy.

2. Notes that the current shop vacancy rate in Wales stands at almost 14 per cent, and the projected rate of store closures is higher in Wales than anywhere else in the UK over the next two years.

3. Regrets that the Welsh Government has not used innovative and supportive measures to help businesses through their transition to the Valuation Office Agency's revaluations, leaving Welsh businesses to tackle high rates, alongside a system of temporary rebates, and a slow appeals process.

4. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) abolish business rates for all businesses with a rateable value of up to £12,000, and provide tapered support for those with a rateable value up to £15,000;

b) take a proactive approach to radically reform the outdated business rates system, and make Wales the flagship nation in addressing the need to provide a more supportive business environment; and

c) place an immediate cap on the multiplier, and a timetabled plan for a gradual reduction in rates.

The following amendments have been tabled:

Amendment 1. Jane Hutt (Vale of Glamorgan)

Delete points 3 and 4 and replace with:

Reaffirms the independence of the Valuation Office Agency following the financial devolution of non-domestic rates to Wales.

Notes the revaluation by the Valuation Office Agency is not designed to raise additional revenue and that while some rateable values have increased, overall they have fallen.

Notes the Welsh Government's:

a) decision to extend the Small Business Rates Relief scheme for 2017-18, providing a tax cut for 70,000 small businesses in Wales

b) decision to make the Small Business Rates Relief scheme permanent from 2018 providing small businesses with certainty that this tax cut will continue;

c) commitment to review the Small Business Rate Relief scheme to make it simpler and fairer for businesses in Wales; and

d) decision to introduce a £10m transitional relief scheme in April 2017 to provide additional help for small businesses receiving SBRR who have been affected by revaluation.

[If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be de-selected]

Amendment 2. Rhun ap Iorwerth (Ynys Môn)
 
Delete point 4 and replace with:

Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) expand the transitional relief available to small businesses affected by the 2017 non-domestic rates revaluation;

b) abolish business rates for all businesses with a rateable value of less than £10,000 per year, and provide tapered relief for businesses whose rateable value is between £10,000 and £20,000;

c) make all businesses during their first year of operation exempt from paying any rates in order to encourage new start-ups;

d) introduce a split multiplier for small and large businesses as is the case in Scotland and England; and

e) explore replacing business rates altogether with alternative forms of taxation which do not discourage employment, town centre regeneration and investment in plant and machinery.

 

 

Minutes:

The item started at 15.58

Voting on the motion and amendments under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

A vote was taken on the motion without amendment:

NDM6170 Paul Davies (Preseli Pembrokeshire)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Recognises that the retail industry employs 130,000 people in Wales, and makes a key contribution to the Welsh economy.

2. Notes that the current shop vacancy rate in Wales stands at almost 14 per cent, and the projected rate of store closures is higher in Wales than anywhere else in the UK over the next two years.

3. Regrets that the Welsh Government has not used innovative and supportive measures to help businesses through their transition to the Valuation Office Agency's revaluations, leaving Welsh businesses to tackle high rates, alongside a system of temporary rebates, and a slow appeals process.

4. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) abolish business rates for all businesses with a rateable value of up to £12,000, and provide tapered support for those with a rateable value up to £15,000;

b) take a proactive approach to radically reform the outdated business rates system, and make Wales the flagship nation in addressing the need to provide a more supportive business environment; and

c) place an immediate cap on the multiplier, and a timetabled plan for a gradual reduction in rates.

 

For

Abstain

Against

Total

14

0

31

45

The motion without amendment was not agreed.

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1. Jane Hutt (Vale of Glamorgan)

Delete points 3 and 4 and replace with:

Reaffirms the independence of the Valuation Office Agency following the financial devolution of non-domestic rates to Wales.

Notes the revaluation by the Valuation Office Agency is not designed to raise additional revenue and that while some rateable values have increased, overall they have fallen.

Notes the Welsh Government's:

a) decision to extend the Small Business Rates Relief scheme for 2017-18, providing a tax cut for 70,000 small businesses in Wales

b) decision to make the Small Business Rates Relief scheme permanent from 2018 providing small businesses with certainty that this tax cut will continue;

c) commitment to review the Small Business Rate Relief scheme to make it simpler and fairer for businesses in Wales; and

d) decision to introduce a £10m transitional relief scheme in April 2017 to provide additional help for small businesses receiving SBRR who have been affected by revaluation.

A vote was taken on Amendment 1:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

24

0

21

45

Amendment 1 was agreed.

As Amendment 1 was agreed, Amendment 2 was de-selected

A vote was taken on the motion as amended:

NDM6170 Paul Davies (Preseli Pembrokeshire)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Recognises that the retail industry employs 130,000 people in Wales, and makes a key contribution to the Welsh economy.

2. Notes that the current shop vacancy rate in Wales stands at almost 14 per cent, and the projected rate of store closures is higher in Wales than anywhere else in the UK over the next two years.

3. Reaffirms the independence of the Valuation Office Agency following the financial devolution of non-domestic rates to Wales.

4. Notes the revaluation by the Valuation Office Agency is not designed to raise additional revenue and that while some rateable values have increased, overall they have fallen.

5. Notes the Welsh Government's:

a) decision to extend the Small Business Rates Relief scheme for 2017-18, providing a tax cut for 70,000 small businesses in Wales

b) decision to make the Small Business Rates Relief scheme permanent from 2018 providing small businesses with certainty that this tax cut will continue;

c) commitment to review the Small Business Rate Relief scheme to make it simpler and fairer for businesses in Wales; and

d) decision to introduce a £10m transitional relief scheme in April 2017 to provide additional help for small businesses receiving SBRR who have been affected by revaluation.

For

Abstain

Against

Total

34

0

11

45

The motion as amended was agreed.

(30 mins)

8.

Plaid Cymru debate

NDM6171 Rhun ap Iorwerth (Ynys Môn)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Regrets the gap between the highest and the lowest paid workers in Welsh local authorities and the wider public sector.

2. Notes Plaid Cymru's success in forcing the Welsh Government to amend the Local Democracy Act during the fourth Assembly to include measures that have improved transparency in how senior officers pay is decided through the establishment of independent remuneration panels.

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

(a) legislate to introduce nationally set pay scales and terms and conditions to control senior and chief officer pay through a national framework which would ensure fair pay for all public sector workers in Wales; and

(b) define the role of local authorities chief executives in legislation which would include abolishing additional payments to council officials for returning officer duties.

'Local Government (Democracy) (Wales) Act 2013'

The following amendments have been tabled:

Amendment 1. Jane Hutt (Vale of Glamorgan)
 
Delete point 2 and replace with:

Notes the requirement of the Local Democracy Act, which includes measures that have improved transparency in how senior officers' pay is decided through the broadening of the powers of the Independent Remuneration Panel for Wales.

[If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be de-selected]

Amendment 2. Paul Davies (Preseli Pembrokeshire)

Delete point 2, and replace with:

Recognises Welsh Conservative proposals, which called on the Welsh Government to place a binding limit on senior office holder salaries to ensure that local authorities enforce effective caps on pay.

Amendment 3. Paul Davies (Preseli Pembrokeshire)
 
Delete Point 3 and replace with:

Calls on the Welsh Government to consider legislation introduced in other Commonwealth jurisdictions, which has enshrined the responsibilities of local government chief executives in law, such as Section 94 A of the Australian Local Government Act 1989.
 
'Australian Local Government Act 1989'

[If amendment 3 is agreed, amendment 4 will be de-selected]

Amendment 4. Jane Hutt (Vale of Glamorgan)
 
In point 3, delete sub-point (a) and replace with:

work with social partners to develop a national framework which would ensure fair pay for devolved public sector workers in Wales; and

Amendment 5. Paul Davies (Preseli Pembrokeshire)
 
Add as a new point at the end of the motion:

Notes the evidence heard by the Public Accounts Committee, which saw stakeholders call for a correlation between senior management pay and organisational performance, as a key indicator in providing value for money.
 
'Public Accounts Committee transcript: 13 May 2014'
 
Amendment 6. Paul Davies (Preseli Pembrokeshire)
 
Add as new point at end of motion:

Further notes the Society of Local Authority Chief Executives and Senior Managers' submission to the UK Government's Communities and Local Government Select Committee Inquiry into Local Government Chief Officer Remuneration in January 2014, which acknowledged that since 2010, a number of local authorities have started to share chief executives and senior management teams, to further drive cost saving measures.
 
'Local Authority Chief Executives and Senior Managers' submission to the UK Government's Communities and Local Government Select Committee Inquiry into Local Government Chief Officer Remuneration'

 

Minutes:

The item started at 16.53

Voting on the motion and amendments under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

A vote was taken on the motion without amendment:

NDM6171 Rhun ap Iorwerth (Ynys Môn)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Regrets the gap between the highest and the lowest paid workers in Welsh local authorities and the wider public sector.

2. Notes Plaid Cymru's success in forcing the Welsh Government to amend the Local Democracy Act during the fourth Assembly to include measures that have improved transparency in how senior officers pay is decided through the establishment of independent remuneration panels.

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

(a) legislate to introduce nationally set pay scales and terms and conditions to control senior and chief officer pay through a national framework which would ensure fair pay for all public sector workers in Wales; and

(b) define the role of local authorities chief executives in legislation which would include abolishing additional payments to council officials for returning officer duties.

For

Abstain

Against

Total

7

4

34

45

The motion without amendment was not agreed.

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1. Jane Hutt (Vale of Glamorgan) 

Delete point 2 and replace with:

Notes the requirement of the Local Democracy Act, which includes measures that have improved transparency in how senior officers' pay is decided through the broadening of the powers of the Independent Remuneration Panel for Wales.

A vote was taken on Amendment 1:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

28

0

17

45

Amendment 1 was agreed.

As Amendment 1 was agreed, Amendment 2 was de-selected.

Amendment 3. Paul Davies (Preseli Pembrokeshire)

Delete Point 3 and replace with:

Calls on the Welsh Government to consider legislation introduced in other Commonwealth jurisdictions, which has enshrined the responsibilities of local government chief executives in law, such as Section 94 A of the Australian Local Government Act 1989.

A vote was taken on Amendment 3:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

14

0

31

45

Amendment 3 was not agreed.

Amendment 4. Jane Hutt (Vale of Glamorgan) 

In point 3, delete sub-point (a) and replace with:

work with social partners to develop a national framework which would ensure fair pay for devolved public sector workers in Wales; and

A vote was taken on Amendment 4:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

24

4

17

45

Amendment 4 was agreed.

Amendment 5. Paul Davies (Preseli Pembrokeshire)

Add as a new point at the end of the motion:

Notes the evidence heard by the Public Accounts Committee, which saw stakeholders call for a correlation between senior management pay and organisational performance, as a key indicator in providing value for money.

A vote was taken on Amendment 5:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

45

0

0

45

Amendment 5 was agreed.

Amendment 6. Paul Davies (Preseli Pembrokeshire)

Add as new point at end of motion:

Further notes the Society of Local Authority Chief Executives and Senior Managers' submission to the UK Government's Communities and Local Government Select Committee Inquiry into Local Government Chief Officer Remuneration in January 2014, which acknowledged that since 2010, a number of local authorities have started to share chief executives and senior management teams, to further drive cost saving measures.

A vote was taken on Amendment 6:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

38

0

7

45

Amendment 6 was agreed.

A vote was taken on the motion as amended:

NDM6171 Rhun ap Iorwerth (Ynys Môn)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Regrets the gap between the highest and the lowest paid workers in Welsh local authorities and the wider public sector.

2. Notes the requirement of the Local Democracy Act, which includes measures that have improved transparency in how senior officers' pay is decided through the broadening of the powers of the Independent Remuneration Panel for Wales.

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

(a) work with social partners to develop a national framework which would ensure fair pay for devolved public sector workers in Wales; and

(b) define the role of local authorities chief executives in legislation which would include abolishing additional payments to council officials for returning officer duties.

4. Notes the evidence heard by the Public Accounts Committee, which saw stakeholders call for a correlation between senior management pay and organisational performance, as a key indicator in providing value for money.

5. Further notes the Society of Local Authority Chief Executives and Senior Managers' submission to the UK Government's Communities and Local Government Select Committee Inquiry into Local Government Chief Officer Remuneration in January 2014, which acknowledged that since 2010, a number of local authorities have started to share chief executives and senior management teams, to further drive cost saving measures.

For

Abstain

Against

Total

38

0

7

45

The motion as amended was agreed.

Point of Order

Neil McEvoy raised a point of order regarding Dawn Bowden’s comments about him receiving over £100,000 from two salaries.

The Deputy Presiding Officer stated that it is the nature of parliamentary debate that facts and arguments are contested. Members are responsible for the accuracy of the statements they make and as long as they are not out of order, it is not for the Chair to judge the facts presented.

Dawn Bowden subsequently withdrew her comments about the figure stated but not her remarks about the two jobs.

(30 mins)

9.

Plaid Cymru debate

NDM6172 Rhun ap Iorwerth (Ynys Môn)
 
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Notes that the independent cancer task force has called for a target of diagnosis within 28 days.

2. Calls on the Welsh Government to ensure that the extra investment in diagnostic equipment secured by Plaid Cymru in the budget negotiations helps achieve this target.

The following amendments have been tabled:

Amendment 1. Jane Hutt (Vale of Glamorgan)
 
Delete all and replace with:
 
Notes:

a) the emphasis on earlier detection of cancer set out in the refreshed Cancer Delivery Plan for Wales (2016-2020);

b) that more people than ever are being treated for cancer in Wales and survival rates are at an all-time high; and

c) that the Welsh Government will ensure that the extra investment in diagnostic equipment set out in the draft budget is used to improve cancer waiting times and treatment outcomes.
 
'Cancer Delivery Plan for Wales 2016-2020'

[If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be de-selected]

Amendment 2. Paul Davies (Preseli Pembrokeshire)
 
Delete Point 2 and replace with:

Calls on the Welsh Government to improve access to screening services across the whole of Wales by acknowledging the role a national mobile cancer treatment service plays in supporting those with cancer, alongside reducing referrals to secondary care by making greater use of diagnostic technology in GP surgeries.

Minutes:

The item started at 17.29

Voting on the motion and amendments under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

A vote was taken on the motion without amendment:

NDM6172 Rhun ap Iorwerth (Ynys Môn)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Notes that the independent cancer task force has called for a target of diagnosis within 28 days.

2. Calls on the Welsh Government to ensure that the extra investment in diagnostic equipment secured by Plaid Cymru in the budget negotiations helps achieve this target.

For

Abstain

Against

Total

11

0

34

45

The motion without amendment was not agreed.

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1. Jane Hutt (Vale of Glamorgan) 

Delete all and replace with:

Notes:

a) the emphasis on earlier detection of cancer set out in the refreshed Cancer Delivery Plan for Wales (2016-2020);

b) that more people than ever are being treated for cancer in Wales and survival rates are at an all-time high; and

c) that the Welsh Government will ensure that the extra investment in diagnostic equipment set out in the draft budget is used to improve cancer waiting times and treatment outcomes.

A vote was taken on Amendment 1:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

24

4

17

45

Amendment 1 was agreed.

As Amendment 1 was agreed, Amendment 2 was de-selected.

A vote was taken on the motion as amended:

NDM6172 Rhun ap Iorwerth (Ynys Môn)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

Notes:

a) the emphasis on earlier detection of cancer set out in the refreshed Cancer Delivery Plan for Wales (2016-2020);

b) that more people than ever are being treated for cancer in Wales and survival rates are at an all-time high; and

c) that the Welsh Government will ensure that the extra investment in diagnostic equipment set out in the draft budget is used to improve cancer waiting times and treatment outcomes.

For

Abstain

Against

Total

38

0

7

45

The motion as amended was agreed.

10.

Voting time

Minutes:

The item started at 18.03

Votes Summary

Supporting documents:

(30 mins)

11.

Short Debate

NDM6167 Angela Burns (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire)

Dyslexia – Life through a different lens

Minutes:

The item started at 18.10

NDM6167 Angela Burns (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire)

Dyslexia – Life through a different lens

 

 

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